tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post3351502847724252162..comments2024-03-04T05:51:28.885-08:00Comments on Applied Mythology: Pesticides: Probably Less Scary Than You ImagineSteve Savagehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04408822620071396633noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-48499455151728458992013-04-11T11:48:25.249-07:002013-04-11T11:48:25.249-07:00thanks very much for your large information .and k...thanks very much for your large information .and knowledge full description . i think it is sus a topi that many kinds of people face many problem. thanks for this.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.local-insights.com/" rel="nofollow"> Information visualization Low </a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354609028007416301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-71120847637310826402013-03-13T10:30:13.164-07:002013-03-13T10:30:13.164-07:00Have you been told about this pest control service...Have you been told about this <a href="http://alliancepestmanagementinc.com" rel="nofollow">pest control services in tavares florida</a>.. He has a wonderful blog you should check out! faddshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10662347897151092606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-13923687440900503212013-02-02T00:57:48.584-08:002013-02-02T00:57:48.584-08:00Shoot so there is no risk index by which we can co...Shoot so there is no risk index by which we can compare one to another, they are all at zero?<br /><br />Also by "The EPA has done a good job of making sure that registered pesticides are not teratogenic." do you also mean herbicides? As actually this is what I've heard most worries from.Dawshosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11006547516337749290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-44706665431783875822013-01-30T21:42:34.593-08:002013-01-30T21:42:34.593-08:00Dawshoss,
Teratogenicity (causing birth defects) ...Dawshoss,<br /><br />Teratogenicity (causing birth defects) is definitely one of the risks that is part of what the EPA reviews. There isn't a quantitative index for this. Here is an example of an MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for glyphosate that states that this compound was not found to be teratogenic. I'd be surprised if you found many if any commercial products for which that is not the same result. The EPA has done a good job of making sure that registered pesticides are not teratogenic.<br /><br />When women are pregnant, it is probably more important that they eat lots of fruits and vegetables because there is evidence that this will "program" their children to have a taste for those foods. That would give them a lifetime of protection from cancer and many other diseasesSteve Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04408822620071396633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-87939911516279092752013-01-30T14:08:22.701-08:002013-01-30T14:08:22.701-08:00Dawshoss,
Sulfur isn't very toxic, but it is h...Dawshoss,<br />Sulfur isn't very toxic, but it is highly irritating to skin and eyes. Depending on what the pest issue, there are some good conventional options. If its an insect problem, products with the active ingredient imidacloprid are quite effective systemically. If it is a disease like a powdery mildew, look for things with myclobutanil or tebuconazole. If its something like aphids or mealy bugs, insecticidal soap works if you can get very complete coverage (e.g. both sides of all leaves). Steve Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04408822620071396633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-55266165137751992682013-01-30T13:34:24.622-08:002013-01-30T13:34:24.622-08:00One thing that's usually missed in these analy...One thing that's usually missed in these analysis's that I was wondering about, aside from LD50 levels, what are the comparative risks of birth defects due to exposure to these chemicals while pregnant? Is there a way to get a list or comparative graph about that? Dawshosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11006547516337749290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-5534192158634534102013-01-30T13:30:48.987-08:002013-01-30T13:30:48.987-08:00I actually use/d a spray containing Sulfur for my ...I actually use/d a spray containing Sulfur for my bonsai trees (it's a 3 in 1 but i used it most for fungus) and noticed some degradation in health afterwords myself. Is there any conventional spray you could recommend that is less toxic?Dawshosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11006547516337749290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-40730004386188266042013-01-15T12:32:33.708-08:002013-01-15T12:32:33.708-08:00I'm sure that out of the thousands of growers ...I'm sure that out of the thousands of growers there are bad actors, but based on my experience I don't think that is close to normative. I've had the chance to work in the past with a broad stake-holder group on the issue of safety training for farmworkers in the apple industry. I can assure that they take it very seriously. Honestly one of the biggest barriers to safety training is our dysfunctional immigration policy and our lack of a rational guest worker policy. Steve Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04408822620071396633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-20149259148935867152013-01-15T11:51:10.977-08:002013-01-15T11:51:10.977-08:00Another point is that label restrictions don't...Another point is that label restrictions don't "prevent workers from being exposed" any more than label restrictions prevent any other behaviors or activities. There's plenty of work showing lax safety training by unethical growers, particularly of undocumented workers, who are reluctant to complain even if they understand the risks.<a href="http://www.AdamsPestControl.com" rel="nofollow">pest control minneapolis</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14260411111464334813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-56535616853514515812012-12-07T01:26:21.461-08:002012-12-07T01:26:21.461-08:00Hello, what a great blog. I usually spend hours on...Hello, what a great blog. I usually spend hours on net for reading blogs on various topics. And I really would like to praise you for writing such a wonderful article. I really believe there is a skill to writing articles that only very few posses and yes you got it. This is a really informative or comprehensive and will for sure refer my friends the same...Thanks a lot! <a href="http://www.bharatbook.com/consumer-goods-market-research-reports/global-insecticide-industry-2012-2017-trend-profit-and-forecast-analysis.html" rel="nofollow">Insecticide Industry Report</a>Market Research Reportshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01338849502816267355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-15694187105811573392012-10-03T23:12:12.525-07:002012-10-03T23:12:12.525-07:00The farmers daughter,
Thanks for the feedback and ...The farmers daughter,<br />Thanks for the feedback and for the nice mention on your blog. You are doing a great job defending ag from a personal and legal perspective!Steve Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04408822620071396633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-55913808976820731682012-10-03T08:04:07.428-07:002012-10-03T08:04:07.428-07:00Mr. Savage. I just wanted to leave a quick comment...Mr. Savage. I just wanted to leave a quick comment and thank you for your blog! I hope you don't mind that I use it as a resource for my own (as a lawyer, science isn't something I'm super awesome at, haha). Keep up the good work! (http://thefarmersdaughterusa.blogspot.com/2012/10/debunking-organic-myth-part-3.html)TheFarmersDaughterUSAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357310483966777557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-61401667559239622202012-10-02T19:49:56.999-07:002012-10-02T19:49:56.999-07:00Michael
There are lots of stats, at least for Cal...Michael<br /><br />There are lots of stats, at least for California, but it isn't broken down by what was on Organic, Transitional or Conventional acres.<br /><br />I'm not sure about that issue of first reporting and then free etc. My impression is that organic producers only have to be concerned about what is or isn't on the list (OMRI). There is no actual requirement for IPM methods etc.Steve Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04408822620071396633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-65482276847727977892012-10-02T19:32:17.650-07:002012-10-02T19:32:17.650-07:00Thanks Dr. Savage.
If there aren't statistic...Thanks Dr. Savage. <br /><br />If there aren't statistics by weight, I wonder if there's any historical data on pesticide application frequency for various crops.<br /><br />I'm also curious about the guidelines Organic producers have to follow in order to spray multiple times in a growing season. <br /><br />It's my understanding that some alternative approaches to chemical pest management must be documented before the first application, but afterward is the producer essentially free to spray multiple times throughout the season, i.e. without following additional Organic protocols?Michael Femiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17901281017778646600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-61165712296547383082012-09-28T20:09:07.373-07:002012-09-28T20:09:07.373-07:00Michael,
I don't have any good source for that...Michael,<br />I don't have any good source for that breakdown, but here is what I know. Sulfur is far an away the largest pesticide use by pounds and by acres. A great deal of that is for conventional grapes and some other crops. Of course it is used even more for the organic grapes, but at <5% of acres thats not much. Organic is relatively small for almost any crop except "spring mix" and "baby spinach."<br /><br />The really interesting issue would be where the copper fungicides are used. They are definitely used on both organic and conventional, but probably a bit more to the organic side because there are so much better options for conventional. <br /><br />I wish there was a good data set for this. Perhaps CalPip could start tracking this.<br /><br />Steve Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04408822620071396633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-58640241705559987692012-09-28T19:24:28.336-07:002012-09-28T19:24:28.336-07:00@California Pesticide Use in 2010 (Weight Basis)
...@California Pesticide Use in 2010 (Weight Basis)<br /><br />Are most of the pesticides approved for Organic use sprayed primarily on Organic farms?<br /><br />I'm curious what percentage of total pesticide by weight is sprayed on Organic acreage.<br />Michael Femiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17901281017778646600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-48533827844464005612012-09-26T12:21:54.478-07:002012-09-26T12:21:54.478-07:00Anonymous,
Bioaccumulation was an issue with certa...Anonymous,<br />Bioaccumulation was an issue with certain old pesticides, and to my knowledge that is really only a remaining issue with rodent baits.<br /><br />As for worker safety training. I think that your view is dated. <br /><br />I was once involved in an effort to improve that for workers exposed to a particular old chemical (which is now entirely gone). One of the biggest barriers was that workers were reluctant to come to officially sponsored training sessions because of risk of deportation. If we could establish a reasonable guest-worker program, we could efficiently train and far more efficiently deploy workers where they are needed. The grower community has been asking for this for decades.Steve Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04408822620071396633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-67695608721404425402012-09-26T10:53:18.036-07:002012-09-26T10:53:18.036-07:00This was helpful, but it would be nice to know mor...This was helpful, but it would be nice to know more details about the variables, such as differences between insecticides, herbicides, fungicides, etc., which are bioaccumulative, when (during the growing season) they're applied, etc. Something that's used as a soil fumigant early in the season that breaks down regularly may be very different from something that is a foliar spray, has a different LD50, and is bioaccumulative.<br /><br />Another point is that label restrictions don't "prevent workers from being exposed" any more than label restrictions prevent any other behaviors or activities. There's plenty of work showing lax safety training by unethical growers, particularly of undocumented workers, who are reluctant to complain even if they understand the risks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-1423154506725904752012-09-24T10:01:01.130-07:002012-09-24T10:01:01.130-07:00Thank you for this post. My biggest pet peeve wit...Thank you for this post. My biggest pet peeve with people talking about pesticides is they fail to put dosage & toxcity in normal people terms, like you did above with comparing toxic levels. <br /><br />Always enjoy your posts!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-74545766352156939132012-09-24T08:38:23.740-07:002012-09-24T08:38:23.740-07:00Mike,
You are right that most of your customers wo...Mike,<br />You are right that most of your customers wouldn't even think to ask if the organic fruit was sprayed. If they do know they probably assume that because the things use in organic are "natural" they are automatically better. The fact is that both synthetic and natural chemicals come in the whole range of toxicity. Steve Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04408822620071396633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-61378224438107625032012-09-24T08:34:24.254-07:002012-09-24T08:34:24.254-07:00Anonymous,
For strawberries I would say that the r...Anonymous,<br />For strawberries I would say that the risk from either organic or conventional are so low you need not hesitate to enjoy them. There are some relatively toxic soil fumigants used on conventional, but that is well before the crop is even planted and they break down as well. I did an analysis of the 2008 strawberry residue data for 2008 and found the smallest safety margin was such that you would need to eat 34 times your own body weight over a short time period to get a toxic dose. The safety factors for most of the residues were in the 100,000 to 1 million range. Just for reference, the caffeine in coffee is somewhat toxic and the safety margin for drinking that is such that if you drank one times your own body weight you could get the toxic dose.<br /><br />Organic strawberry growers often use copper-based fungicides. Those are 10-20 times as toxic to mammals as the conventional alternatives and they are used at rates of multiple pounds per acre vs ounces/acre. Even so, the copper salts are pretty water soluble and non-systemic, so they should be fairly easily washed off in your sink. If the residues were a real safety issue, they would not remain EPA registered.<br /><br />Bottom line, just enjoy the berriesSteve Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04408822620071396633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-38900145867807443482012-09-24T07:19:48.072-07:002012-09-24T07:19:48.072-07:00This article is a place to start but when I am cho...This article is a place to start but when I am choosing a strawberry I really am much more concerned about how pesticides will effect ME than how they will effect aquatic life. Telling me how toxic something is to fish does not help me to decide. It is useful to know that both organic and non organic produce may contain pesticides but I want to know if the organic pesticides are safer to eat or not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4541703279082624205.post-6911257237369731902012-09-24T03:03:48.508-07:002012-09-24T03:03:48.508-07:00As usual, Steve, I've learned a lot from you.
...As usual, Steve, I've learned a lot from you.<br /><br />Before I "jumped ship" and left the organic movement, I worked at an organic farm that used pesticides. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, but the way organics advocates issue calumnies against so-called conventional farmers for their pesticides use just reeks of hypocrisy.<br /><br />I can remember the moment when the cognitive dissonance was so great that I simply couldn't continue the charade of believing organic was superior to other farming methods. It was at a training session for pesticide applicators: To work at the organic farm, I had to go to the state of Maine's organic center to learn the laws and be certified as a pesticides applicator. It was very weird.<br /><br />Another story of disillusionment: At a new farmers workshop in Maine, during the pesticides module, an orchardist got up to speak about conventional versus organic pesticides use on apples. His orchard has both organic and conventional fruit [that he could be both is a bit of silliness in itself, but topic for a separate discussion].<br /><br />This grower explained that he sprays his conventional crop 12 times a year to control disease, fungi, and insects. <br /><br />Then he explained that he sprays his organic apples <b>22 times</b> a year! The reason, he stated, is "sulfur, sulfur, and more sulfur." It's basically the only way organic growers in the Northeast can control scab fungus.<br /><br />He also stated that his organic trees produce only 25% of what his conventional trees produce, and that "those trees are not healthy" as a result of their organic treatment.<br /><br />We have a tiny orchard of 65 heirloom trees here on our little CSA farm, and believe me I have no qualms about using "conventional" pesticides to take care of them.<br /><br />And yet the propaganda against any farming that doesn't uphold organic dogma is so pervasive that I've had a customer at a local farmers market ask me if my apples have been sprayed, and when I said yes, the customer said she would not feed them to her child.<br /><br />I'll bet she never even thinks to ask organic farmers whether they spray....Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15010647054268510724noreply@blogger.com